Comments on: The Times completely misses the point http://www.quietatheist.com/index.php/2009/11/the-times-completely-misses-the-point/ Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:03:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Slugsie http://www.quietatheist.com/index.php/2009/11/the-times-completely-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-740 Slugsie Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:06:51 +0000 http://www.quietatheist.com/?p=329#comment-740 I actually agree with you, I'm not sure that at this point in time and advert of this nature is the best use of our funds or effort (I was an early contributor to the original bus campaign, the over contribution to which has helped pay for this campaign). There are so many more pressing issues that need to be brought to the forefront first. Still, as the message is out I do think that it is important that the message is understood correctly. I actually agree with you, I’m not sure that at this point in time and advert of this nature is the best use of our funds or effort (I was an early contributor to the original bus campaign, the over contribution to which has helped pay for this campaign). There are so many more pressing issues that need to be brought to the forefront first. Still, as the message is out I do think that it is important that the message is understood correctly.

]]> By: Slugsie http://www.quietatheist.com/index.php/2009/11/the-times-completely-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-729 Slugsie Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:34:11 +0000 http://www.quietatheist.com/?p=329#comment-729 You too have completely missed the point. Firstly, there is no such thing as atheistic values. Humanist or secular values maybe, but not atheistic. Secondly, the campaign is in no way attempting to prevent any parent from imparting their value system onto their children. As you rightly say, that would be ridiculous. It is all about the automatic presemption that children - who are usually too young to be able to make an informed choice on thier own - can be labelled with the value system of their parents. Children of christian parents are not christian children, they are children of christian parents. They may well grow up to become proper christians in their own right, but that should be a matter of their own choosing. Obviously parental guidance will be a heavily influencing factor, but every maturing human must have the right to determine their own identity without arbitrary labels being applied. I am a software engineer, would you for one moment label my daughter as such? No, that would be patently ridiculous. It's the exact same principle. For any matter of personal choice (and religion or irreligion most definitely is a personal choice) each and every one of us must be free to label ourselves. You too have completely missed the point. Firstly, there is no such thing as atheistic values. Humanist or secular values maybe, but not atheistic. Secondly, the campaign is in no way attempting to prevent any parent from imparting their value system onto their children. As you rightly say, that would be ridiculous. It is all about the automatic presemption that children – who are usually too young to be able to make an informed choice on thier own – can be labelled with the value system of their parents. Children of christian parents are not christian children, they are children of christian parents. They may well grow up to become proper christians in their own right, but that should be a matter of their own choosing. Obviously parental guidance will be a heavily influencing factor, but every maturing human must have the right to determine their own identity without arbitrary labels being applied.

I am a software engineer, would you for one moment label my daughter as such? No, that would be patently ridiculous. It’s the exact same principle. For any matter of personal choice (and religion or irreligion most definitely is a personal choice) each and every one of us must be free to label ourselves.

]]> By: Joe http://www.quietatheist.com/index.php/2009/11/the-times-completely-misses-the-point/comment-page-1/#comment-728 Joe Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:35:44 +0000 http://www.quietatheist.com/?p=329#comment-728 The premise that one can keep a child as a blank slate regarding the parents' values and morals is patently ridiculous. Children learn, that is a basic thing they do, so if you don't teach your children the values you consider to be so important and proper that you have based your life on them, you are only leaving it up to someone else to teach your kids the values they consider to be important. Your child is an atheist because you have imparted atheistic values on her. Unless you have been getting up every Sunday morning and happily driving to church so you can attend services while she goes to Sunday School, or you have been kneeling down in prayer 5 times a day facing Mecca, or showing her any other of the myriad of religious practices and your appreciation for them, you have been teaching her atheistic values, so stop fooling yourself, and admit you want to be able to impart atheistic values on other children. The premise that one can keep a child as a blank slate regarding the parents’ values and morals is patently ridiculous. Children learn, that is a basic thing they do, so if you don’t teach your children the values you consider to be so important and proper that you have based your life on them, you are only leaving it up to someone else to teach your kids the values they consider to be important. Your child is an atheist because you have imparted atheistic values on her. Unless you have been getting up every Sunday morning and happily driving to church so you can attend services while she goes to Sunday School, or you have been kneeling down in prayer 5 times a day facing Mecca, or showing her any other of the myriad of religious practices and your appreciation for them, you have been teaching her atheistic values, so stop fooling yourself, and admit you want to be able to impart atheistic values on other children.

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